I have ton of thoughts racing through my mind over what we have discussed the past 8 weeks at The Riv. One thought I've been considering even before Sunday, and especially since Sunday night's dialogue, is-
HOW IMPORTANT ARE WORDS IN THE GOSPEL?
I.e.- how important is what we say? We speak often, well most of us- against a contrived, formulaic presentation that reduces that gospel to a few propositions. One of the problems with these 'presentations'-beyond the presumptive 'sales pitch' appearance- is that these presentations reduce the gospel the our assumed basic level of the gospel-e.g. "just believe", "repent", "say this prayer", "confess these things" ...etc etc. which may or may not be a fair assessment of the gospel. Furthermore, these presentations are rarely organic and natural. They come with the agenda of "getting to the point/close" so that we can get the person to "accept/receive" the gospel in this moment-once for all (or again -depending on one's belief in the "eternal security" of a believer). Which obviously leaves out the clear, replete biblical teaching of a continued obedience to the holistic gospel and calling upon the name of the Lord as not only a means to conversation, but a lifestyle- e.g. Psalm 116:13.
So, back to the question- How important are the words we say? We are not looking for one sentence answers to the question here, but rather looking to discuss out the tension of the significance of words. Word "preach" is certainly not limited to words, but includes words. Answer (as in 1 peter 3:15) entails speaking words. Words such as "Proclaim", "declare", "herald", "teach" are all words that at minimum include that we speak something of the gospel.
So-how important are words? or let me phrase the question another way- "What are the things that we should speak" when we "share the gospel"?
And let me add to the question- If our words, our conversations are to be truly organic, natural- and authentically productive,- (WOW) how important then does our Knowledge of the Faith become?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAND- Go!
thoughts- Questions, comments..........
(posted by Sam)
13 comments:
wowwww I'm finally starting on this blog. Took me long enough...
I think the words we choose are more than crucial. I sometimes feel intimidated when talking to knowledgeable people about the gospel, feeling like I'm not using "cool bible words".. so I think it's important to help people feel comfortable. Not that you should dumb down your phrases, but definitely be aware of who you're talking to.
When sharing the gospel, I think it's important to definitely not make it so much of a "sales pitch" like you said, and not JUST focus on making sure they say the prayer by the end of your speech. Delivering a caring, personal vibe is what needs to happen first, I think. It's easy for someone to shut the other person off if they feel hounded or they're hearing the same thing they've heard from anyone else trying to minister to them. Which goes along with that question you added at the end, which.. in my opinion is pretty important, but to still be sure to share an authentically productive dialogue at the same time.
"Very Important."
DONE! NAILED IT!
Josh, you have, once again, NAILED IT! Thanks.
Beth, your thoughts are thought provoking.
Both of you (and whoever else joins this dialogue)- one of the things that I have been thinking out is- when we share the gospel, there is still in me this desire to "nail" it so to speak. I mean sum it up. However, in my life experientially, i've listened to many who share the gospel with someone over and over. They go from one presentation of the 2-5 facts that are, in the speaker's estimation, THE GOSPEL, to the next. In essence, they keep repeating the same information. REALLY?? I think. So, when we say Christ is the gospel (which I hope we do) how do we draw our attention, however long it takes to get there (meaning- even if it is over several conversations)-or the attention of our friend- to Jesus? Or let me say it this way= What things do we say about Jesus beyond just that he is good, loving, gracious etc. Is it bigger than using our bible language, so that it includes the bible, but not limited to, and even bigger than the bible + our story, and more a holistic connection of all creation?
Not sure if this makes sense.. but these are the thoughts that race through my head.
I think of recent conversations where I think I pointed someone to Jesus, but never actually said Jesus. Did that person know I meant Jesus? Do I have to say Jesus? Do I have to not say Jesus?
I know text book answers to these questions, I am really just having a crisis, or wrestling of my orthoproxy/CHrist living in sharing the gospel.
Authenticity is really hard to do, let alone be...........
Beth, your comments reminded me of a book I read several years ago... I was taking a class on evangelism and one of the books we were assigned was "More Ready Than You Realize" by Brian McClaren.
In the book, McClaren recounts an incident where he was speaking at a large christian convention... large enough to have scheduled a small orchestra to play at (which sounds a bit ridiculous but go with me on this)... anyway, at the end of the night as McClaren was exiting the building he noticed a young women from the orchestra who was having trouble loading a very large instrument into her vehicle... McClaren walked over and asked he could help her lift it...
She agreed and during the process she asked him a question... which I will paraphrase.. but basically she asked "Do you really believe in all of that Jesus crap you talked about tonight?"
To which he responded yes... or at least that he attempted to place faith in it... he finished loading her car and passed along his email address to her explaining that he had to run but if she would like to talk more about it... then he would available...
In his story he points out two things that made this an authentic exchange of the gospel with this young woman... first, his intent was not conversion.. he simply saw a need and addressed it (ie. helping her load her car)... this authentic act of kindness offered her an opportunity to ask a question on her own terms and in her own language...
McClaren labels this... "earning the right to be hear"... which is a part of evangelism that I believe many Christians forget about... why would people want to listen to what we have to say when we are not truly interested in their needs... as a church body, as a community we have the resources to reach out and help people in a way that they cannot do for themselves... in this way I agree with McClaren that we have to earn the right to be heard before we can "enter into dialogue" (Yep, I went there!) with anyone.
Secondly, he made himself available for extended conversation and didn't tell her "today is the day of salvation" or "Yes I do believe in that Jesus crap and you need to decide RIGHT NOW if you do to before it's too late."
Instead... he was patient.
If the Christian community needs anything... God knows it's patience with other people who think differently that we do... true and lasting conversions take time... they take trust... they take honest and open communication... they take time... and sometimes LOTS OF IT.
I think all of us can look back at our own conversion story... (and i saw it that way because I do not personally believe it happen at one particular moment but really over a lifetime of experiences...) but I believe we can look back at our own story and see that it has taken us time to get to the place where we are now... we should afford others that opportunity also...
These are just some thoughts.
God's Peace.
Josh
These are all really good thoughts and I think we can benefit from what each person has said. Beth, what you said about the influence of words reminds me of that scripture where it says, “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.” In other words, the media of our message is at least as important as the content or the information of our meaning. So, if we fail to love and listen to people genuinely (as both Beth and Josh have already said) then our words are really meaningless, and we are essentially just making noise and the noise that we are making is an agenda where we just want the chance to tell people what we want them to hear, without regards to what they really need, which is “love, sweet love.” As we truly love and befriend people in the way of Christ we are in a sense sharing the Good News of Jesus with them, but not in a formulaic, linear, let-me-fix-you, sort of way. This way of presenting the gospel is, I think, is how real life works today, and I could not agree with Josh more that conversion is a progression and a story.
For example, Melissa and I were talking the other day about our family getting baptized again this Sunday, and we specifically spoke about Alexis. Alexis has not gone forward during a traditional, churchy invitation, nor has she said “the prayer”, nor has she said “I profess the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord and have believed on him for my eternal destiny yada yada yada (holy crap, I don’t think I have either, so I’m probably not even a registered Republican). She has, however, in her own way confessed to me, Melissa, Alyssa, and to others that she is connected to Jesus in some way and I think somewhere along the way she has called out to Him for rescue (which even as I type this now brings tears to my eyes). I think she, as well as Alyssa, have both come to know Jesus in some way and even though we haven’t nailed down a decision, they are related to Christ through us. What does that mean? I hope it means that there is some value to the words that we as a family has said and taught, but what I think it means more than that is that they have found faith in Jesus through living in our story as connected to Jesus. This is extremely humbling and terribly scary all at the same time, but I believe that the complexity of this mirrors real life, in which we find our own relational way of bringing others into the story of Christ through our own stories. This takes time, patience, effort, profound love, and at bare minimum words.
In closing (every head bowed, every eye closed), I think words have to be used, for how else will love be communicated even if we act or do things (I can’t imagine anything being done without using words). Nevertheless, Paul wrote, “And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?” And “For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…(and) it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.” I know this doesn’t nail it like Josh did (see the cross connection…Nail?), and I know that there is much more that needs to be said, but it seems that words do have to be a part (not the only or perhaps even the main part) of sharing the gospel, because if not then why did Jesus waste his time announcing information about the reality of the kingdom. It seems most important that we get to the living part, but how is that possible without the path of words? Beyond that it seems that the meaning of what we say is important, but I am not sure how that translates into the reality of Christ breaking through people’s lives gradually, because I absolutely believe that He does, but I am uncertain as to how this happens and to what degree words and their meanings (as in certain things to be believed) are part of that. I have much more I want to say, but I will take a momentary vow of silence, so I can hear some corrections and helps to this incomplete banter.
I think words are pretty important in presenting the Gospel, but not more or less important than actions. I guess it all comes down to love and the motivation behind our words and actions. If we are constantly abiding in Christ, than His love along with the Gospel message should naturally flow through us. One thing my boss always says is "The Gospel message is SO SIMPLE!" It's not our responsibility to make sure people are going to heaven, but we are responsible to love everyone.
Not sure if any of that made sense, but I just wanted to contribute something to the convo...
I love you all and miss you like crazy!
WOW! Lauren and Bittems in on the blog!
I just want to say that I'm reading the blog even though I don't comment on anything ....yet. I will someday.
Stepping up to the plate.
I couldn't agree more with everything I've read here. A few years ago, I would completely laugh at the person I am today and think myself to be in danger of patting flames off my ass entering Heaven. Part of being in a ministering position at Calvary Chapel meant that you were trained to be ready with a Gospel of John and a presentation. So there were several nights where we would hit the beach boardwalk and (even though we weren't the PCC or Brownsville crews [we were so much cooler with our t-shirts and jeans]) try to make people feel as awkward as possible about being where they were. We were hoping that their embarrassment would make them want to embrace our Saviour.
Of course we never looked at it that way, we thought were doing exactly what was required of us. I never prayed with anyone on the beach, nor did I have many conversations that ended well. I didn't understand at that point in my life what it meant to truly pass on the message of the Gospel. It's a message that is so life changing that when it creeps up on our sinful nature, it can be way too much to handle in a 15 minute conversation with someone you've never met.
The words we use are definitely of the utmost importance, but I think the importance is on a holistic level, not just while discussing the Gospel. I think that the things we say when we are being ourselves and living our daily lives are equally as important as what we say when we want someone to come to share in Gospel. Our actions and our words are the most important when we have no agenda, because those things ring true when we do want to get a point across.
I'd like to finish with a quote from a man named Brennan Manning, but more well know as the perfect intro to a song I believe God himself wrote and handed down to the only band he could trust with it. "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today... is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is simply what an unbelieving world finds unbelievable." (D-d-down with the DC Talk).
"D"..ecent "C"...hristians Talk, has got to be one of the worst names of all time, but put those 3(2 of them are straight) together and now their wearing gold plated diapers from all those hits that helped save lives all across the 1990's. That quote from "What if I Stumble" is so right on though, it's really convicting infact. I remember not getting it as a 15 yr old, I just wanted to get to Jesus Freak and rock out with my new found christian rock that was cool enough for Tk101.
What a huge topic this is, and after reading everyone's thoughts I'm even more thankful to be a part of this community, not because you guys are throwing out some good questions, thoughts, and struggles. But because you waited for me to come in and give you all the answer and solution. I mean let's face it, when reading any of Jesus' sermons or thoughts on reaching the lost, I quickly see him handing out trax and giving quick 10 min prayers without getting to know someone first. Guys this is all pretty black and white, but when Jesus talks it's in Red, so I rest my case.
Wait what!? Ok on a more serious note now, since I never joke on here, ever...? Jason #1(I'm glad we have to preface that now with a #, which means your on here now) anyways, I saw you one night out at the beach with the Calvary bunch, atleast I think I did. It was around 2001 and I was hanging with some friends on the board walk actually just talking about some serious stuff when we were approached by 3 guys who asked us a series of questions. They were the typical questions about salvation but what struck me as odd was that I was wearing my 3rd Day shirt at the time with Mac Powell and all his glory on the front, shouldn't the questions about my faith have ended there. Moving on, so they asked some classic stuff and we answered with church like answers and then they were like, cool, ok well, see ya on to the next, and they seemed to give off this vibe that they thought we were bad/not christian because we weren't out doing what they were doing. Come to think of it Jason, none of them had Tats or a P.O.D shirt on so it defintely wasn't you.
It was around that time that I really started noticing Shit like that going down all the time. And I use that word because as someone who claims to try and follow Christ his best, I feel I have been discriminated alot by people like that who have the gospel rolled up in the palm of there hand, when infact I don't know one person on the outside of christianity who has EVER had anything positive to say about people like that and that approach.
From time well spent in this community I have learned and grown alot in some area's and one thing for sure is the challenge I now carry of letting my authenticity and actions show true in what I value and believe, no matter where I go. Meaning, that I think about the company I'm around at all times and think about the actions I uphold around them knowing that if I claim to be a part of something bigger(a vision, a community, a kingdom) I need to show that I'm laboring to live that instead of something that comes off as the exact opposite. Being around you wonderful people has helped me see that, and infact challenged me more to think about my decisions before I make them knowing that some people could be watching saying "but wait, he said that, but he does this, he said that was important to him, but clearly this is more important". Because in the company I've kept outside of the river for the last few years, those are the types of things people have confronted me on when asking what is christianity all about. And my hope for us is that we can by our lifestyle and living out of our vision, answer that by saying: let's talk, but also LET US SHOW YOU.
I know we kind of talked about this the other Sunday, especailly when we watched that "Real Christians of Genius" ("Mr. Christianese-speaking person") but I had an experience yesterday that ties into the discussion of how language is used to present/discuss Jesus and things related to Him . . .bear with me as it gets rambly:
A friend I work with (who has had some church experience but is currently feeling like she needs a more intimate friendship with God) brought up the concept of the holy Trinity. We were discussing that, how 1 God, 3 Persons still confuses us both at times, and I was trying to help by explaining to her what I understood of it.
She asked about why some Christians pray to Jesus every time, and why/is it different from praying to God, and why people don't pray to the Holy Spirit, and I told her, you can pray to all three, it's all God, and was just trying to break it down for her, to be helpful, and to keep it in her idiom.
As she was saying, well, why pray to Jesus if you can go straight to the top and pray to his dad?, another work-friend of ours happened by and heard her. Oh, he said, it's because Jesus is our Mediator. Then he gave a short, correct, kind-hearted, and rather technical explanation of why we honor Jesus as Mediator and what He did to restore mankind's relationship with God. It was like walking through a desert. It was not wrong, but it was rather irrelevant.
I think maybe he answered the question he heard her ask, but I don't think (if this makes any sense) that he answered her heart, really. I could be wrong, but I think saying something like, a lot of Christians pray to Jesus because they love Him so much and are so grateful to Him, and because they're acknowledging He is God, not just a man who's God's son, would have come closer to the mark, and seemed pertinent for her, and been a lot less like trying to read the Book of Hebrews with a migraine.
I think sometimes as Christians we can be insensitive to where the individual we're with is in their experience and understanding of God, is I guess what I'm trying to say. And I object to language that obfuscates Him, because I want everyone to have His light.
(Although, when I'm in scholarly mode, sometimes big technical theology words are pretty sexy and exciting to me, because they can address such deep truths -- there's a time and a place, is all I'm saying.)
And that is my comment.
Man, you guys have some great thoughts here. I am so glad to be a part of this community.
In my own experience I went to a church in Omaha that placed great emphasis on door to door evangelism, of which I was involved. I sometimes felt that it was a chore to attend this and, to be honest, kind of got down on myself if we did not have a "successful" night. I remember thinking, though, that there was something not quite right about the way we went about "evangelism".
One of the things we tried to do is open a conversation to try and make friends and then pop the question. It almost felt deceitful or manipulative.
I remember one night I had the opportunity to go with Eric and we talked with this girl that had to be all of 15 or 16. We carried on a conversation with her until we came to a point were "the question" was asked. We went through the outline with this girl and at the end she decided to pray "the prayer". (Man, I feel I am using a lot of quotes. Sorry about that.) Anyway, we came back to the church that night and celebrated that fact that we had one new convert all the while my thought was that she had just said the prayer to get us off of her porch.
Whenever someone comes to my door that I do not know, I know they are not here to just chew the fat. There is an ulterior motive and I know I am not the only one who feels that way.
This is just a little of my thoughts. I hope they are helpful.
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