Last night we examined Psalm 133 as a community (Sweet, Like Mountain Dew). As we discussed last evening, the sweetness and beauty of Community is seen best, often, against the backdrop of contention and turmoil. What make community so heavenly is the journey of friendship where people love each despite conflict, where forgiveness flows, hospitality permeates the welcoming spirit.
but, the question that we started to pose last night as we concluded was:
"What Boundaries do we need to have?" and how do we practically function with these boundaries?
Does Doctrine become a boundary? if so-to what degree? what other things become boundaries for us as a community, in order to protect the community?
thoughts? Questions? comments?
(posted by sam)
4 comments:
Doctrine being a boundary is a scary thought. Maybe if it was a very loose boundary, but not if it goes like this: "If you don't believe this, this and this, and you do believe that, then you can't participate."
Obviously it depends upon what those beliefs are. We don't want any children sacrificed or anything like that (as much as I love murdering babies, apparently).
The last church I was at made me feel excluded and, inevitably unwelcome because of my differing beliefs that were just as grounded in biblical truth as their beliefs.
I think this is something with a lot of TENSION.
I agree, doctrinal boundaries are scarry, because if we are not careful, then a Propositional statement becomes black and white, and then we become (I think)like the Pharisees who searched the scriptures for in them they thought was eternal life, but missed Jesus.(John 5:39)
I guess in The Riv's paradigm, doctrine would be less a "statement of belief" and more a life that is lived.
It seems that when "corrective" matters came up in scripture, most often it was because of how someone was living, and not with something they believed or taught. The one exception would possibly be Titus 3 where we are told to avoid the "heretic" after the 2nd warning. This is often regarded as one who teaches false doctrine, but it actually has to do with one who divides, and the rest of the context from chapter 1-3 seems to deal more w/ how people live. So if someone speaks out one way, and yet lives another-then they are divisive. And the passage also deals w/ busybodies who seem to spend their time stirring up conflict by talking about people.
I guess I see this as the doctrinal boundary.
this is tough.
Aren't there Doctrinal truths that we need to stick to and have boundaries with, though? Things such as the death, burial and resurrection of Christ? The fact that Christ was God? I agree that we should be willing and need to be fluid with some truths but I also believe there should be some that we stick to. Not that we stick to them to the point of the exclusion of others, though.
So, how do we react with those that do not believe the same way we do. Do we shut them down and say something like, "come back to us when you see it our way"? (I don't agree with this, personally.) I think we continue the mantra of loving them until they realize they are not Christian. Then, once they realize this, give them the boot...just kidding. Then we love them even more.
If we are having corrective issues with someone I would think we have to be bold enough to approach the person in love. That would hold true if it is a problem one individual is have with other individual or if the group is having an issue with an individual or group. I guess if we as a community went by this it would be great, however, what happens when it is someone new to our community. Are we still to be bold enough to go to this person? Even at the risk of, in their eyes, alienating them? I just don't know.
Jeremy, of course "doctrinal" boundaries have a place. But, there is a reason the scriptures call us to have leaders, or pastor/elders if you will. And there are things like "doctrinal statements" that are a guide for us. But two thoughts come to mind on this:
1) We should never think we have arrived on anything in a doctrinal statement. This would by necessity preclude anything that takes us away from Jesus, since He is the author and founder of our faith. But, if we conclude we have "conquered" a doctrine, then in a sense we are saying- We no longer need Jesus to cling to this doctrine- and that would go against the very meaning, or substance (Colossians 2:17) of all doctrine. Anything that takes us away from Jesus=bad. But we should be careful in insisting we need doctrinal boundaries w/o a sense of humility and meekness coupled w/ it (James 1:21).
2)the second thought pertains to the person that was speaking false doctrine, and the spirit by which they speak it. Erwin McManus says that a church isn't doing something right if there isn't bad doctrine in it (a far cry from the Modern Enlightenment Church of DOCTRINE IS KING!). the purpose of elders/pastors is to teach and lead the church into good doctrine (and those who believe will have the Holy Spirit confirm whether these things are so) and protect from bad doctrine. So, if leaders are teaching bad doctrine, then this would be a case of going through the corrective process. However, a newcomer has bad doctrine- they have to have a freedom to ask questions, even to question-as long as they have a spirit of humility and communal awareness of others, and an understanding we (the Elders) will correct as we see fit in a spirit of love.
But, i believe the first two comments aren't negating doctrine, but simply seeking to put doctrine in it's proper place (which is not First and foremost in and of itself. E.g. to say Jesus is Lord is a doctrinal confession, but the point is not the statement, but the life of community w/ God in Jesus and His people that flows from it. So if someone makes this True Confession, but doesn't live this confession- They have Bad Doctrine that should be corrected. However, someone who can't come to place to saying this statement, but lives this confession- there is room for Teaching/discipleship (versus correction)- this seems to be what Jesus alludes to in some manner in Matthew 21:28-32. Having the right answers, is not nearly as important as living the right life- which as we know is to with/through/for Christ be "An afflux of authentic Life" and trust that if our equations or understandings are a little off, Christ will in the journey help us in our understanding.
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